tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post116333779456923447..comments2023-09-13T09:59:36.013+01:00Comments on snowflake5: The problem with Jon Cruddassnowflake5http://www.blogger.com/profile/14700425293614182769noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1166454700260464882006-12-18T15:11:00.000+00:002006-12-18T15:11:00.000+00:00Hi duncan.I think the Lib Dem vote is very weak. H...Hi duncan.<BR/><BR/>I think the Lib Dem vote is very weak. Half the time, they are just a repository of protest votes, not an endorsement of the Lib Dems.<BR/><BR/>I think a lot of people voted Lib Dem in the last election because they believed that they were best placed to give the govt a kicking. Now they are dis-illusioned and looking for a new home.snowflake5https://www.blogger.com/profile/14700425293614182769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1166207768329485722006-12-15T18:36:00.000+00:002006-12-15T18:36:00.000+00:00I doubt that there's a significant Lib Dem to BNP ...I doubt that there's a significant Lib Dem to BNP shift either (although there may be some, as there may be a small labour shift) - many more BNP voters won't have voted when there isn't a BNP candidate. And I'm sure quite a lot of them will say to Labour campaigners that they used to vote Labour. I'm not convinced there are the sorts of shifts that Margaret Hodge or John Cruddas are talking Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163774263944044622006-11-17T14:37:00.000+00:002006-11-17T14:37:00.000+00:00nick - who is saying "ignore the BNP"? If you read...nick - who is saying "ignore the BNP"? If you read my post, I said we should combat them with hard campaigning on the ground combined with starving them of publicity at the national level. Which part of "hard campaigning on the ground" says "ignore them"?<BR/><BR/>Going back to Jon Cruddas claims that BNP voters are "disgruntled former Labour people", here's the results from another council snowflake5https://www.blogger.com/profile/14700425293614182769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163719476621178272006-11-16T23:24:00.000+00:002006-11-16T23:24:00.000+00:00The idea that if we all just ignore the BNP they'l...The idea that if we all just ignore the BNP they'll go away is not just nonsense, it is dangerous nonsense. <BR/><BR/>Hyping them up before elections like Margaret Hodge certainly isn't a great idea, but pretending there is no problem to tackle is just as silly in the opposite direction. <BR/><BR/>The BNP derives much of its momentum from hysteria over immigration - and the Government are Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163697369797140872006-11-16T17:16:00.000+00:002006-11-16T17:16:00.000+00:00"Publicity is the be-all and end-all of political ..."Publicity is the be-all and end-all of political parties, Without it you die."<BR/><BR/><BR/>wrong.<BR/><BR/>popularity is the be-all and end-all of all political parties. it takes 2 to tango.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163677174691609762006-11-16T11:39:00.000+00:002006-11-16T11:39:00.000+00:00nick, the proper way to combat the BNP is to do ha...nick, the proper way to combat the BNP is to do hard campaigning on the ground, while keeping national publicity to a minimum to deny them the oxygen of publicity and prevent the problem speading.<BR/><BR/>Publicity is the be-all and end-all of political parties, Without it you die. Jon Cruddas has been perversely giving the BNP plenty of coverage. Of course he's really trying to publicise his snowflake5https://www.blogger.com/profile/14700425293614182769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163630428883038882006-11-15T22:40:00.000+00:002006-11-15T22:40:00.000+00:00"I'm sorry Nick, but if you think Labour can reduc..."I'm sorry Nick, but if you think Labour can reduce the BNP vote by ourselves, by increasing the Labour vote (to about 70%) you've got rocks in your head."<BR/><BR/>What on earth are you on about Snowflake5? You don't need to increase the Labour vote to 70% in order to reduce the BNP vote, you only need to persuade one person not to vote BNP! And preferably go on to persuade others! <BR/><BR/>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163629915685889662006-11-15T22:31:00.000+00:002006-11-15T22:31:00.000+00:00Just as Labour has abandoned me and my family I ha...Just as Labour has abandoned me and my family I have stopped my support for them,the same has happened to most of my mates.<BR/>Our wages are being cut,rents going up and now we have to pay benefits back because nobody can understand how they work.<BR/>The BNP understands what white working class people need and will put them ahead of the millions of immigrants flooding this country,so me and my Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163535307080535132006-11-14T20:15:00.000+00:002006-11-14T20:15:00.000+00:00nice to hear from someone - on the ground, so to s...nice to hear from someone - on the ground, so to speak.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163432740725678622006-11-13T15:45:00.000+00:002006-11-13T15:45:00.000+00:00I'm sorry Nick, but if you think Labour can reduce...I'm sorry Nick, but if you think Labour can reduce the BNP vote by ourselves, by increasing the Labour vote (to about 70%) you've got rocks in your head.<BR/><BR/>"The headlines that are the problem are those in the tabloid papers ranting on about immigration, headlines involving Labour doing something to combat the BNP are not."<BR/><BR/>But the headlines arn't saying that Labour is doing snowflake5https://www.blogger.com/profile/14700425293614182769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163429372740814002006-11-13T14:49:00.000+00:002006-11-13T14:49:00.000+00:00"We are all in this together butagain it is Labour..."We are all in this together butagain it is Labour that broke it"<BR/><BR/>don't believe governments have the strength/power to make societies ill.<BR/><BR/>they can lead with regards to the healing process though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163424998865847662006-11-13T13:36:00.000+00:002006-11-13T13:36:00.000+00:00I don't think that any of the Labour figures who h...I don't think that any of the Labour figures who have commented on the BNP lately have been suggesting that somehow the problem is entirely down to Labour - that would be a most peculiar interpretation of what Brown, Cruddas or anyone else actually said. <BR/><BR/>At a local level, of course opposition parties should stand in BNP target wards and from what I know Cruddas has tactically encouragedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163424809567247652006-11-13T13:33:00.000+00:002006-11-13T13:33:00.000+00:00traffic.one:"no. society's ills are society's resp...traffic.one:<BR/>"no. society's ills are society's responsibilty. As Mr cameron has so aptly put it "we are all in it together".<BR/><BR/>Umm.. We are all in this together butagain it is Labour that broke it, and it will take a Conservative government to fix it. Thats my point. If I though Labour had a snowflake in hells chance fo fixing the problem, I would take another view.Benedict Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01382732288664789210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163421557334550372006-11-13T12:39:00.000+00:002006-11-13T12:39:00.000+00:00"I think, if Cruddas goes only for Deputy Leader, ..."I think, if Cruddas goes only for Deputy Leader, then no one is better suited than Hain for Deputy PM."<BR/><BR/><BR/>this seems reasonable. cruddas to work on energising the grassroots. Brown.Hain feels like a formidable front.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163421286626924362006-11-13T12:34:00.000+00:002006-11-13T12:34:00.000+00:00"It has happened on labours watch. it is labours f..."It has happened on labours watch. it is labours fault. Your lot broke it."<BR/><BR/><BR/>no. society's ills are society's responsibilty. As Mr cameron has so aptly put it "we are all in it together".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163419098990191312006-11-13T11:58:00.000+00:002006-11-13T11:58:00.000+00:00Jm,No chance. Hain has more support in Parliament...Jm,<BR/><BR/>No chance. Hain has more support in Parliament than people think.<BR/><BR/>I think, if Cruddas goes only for Deputy Leader, then no one is better suited than Hain for Deputy PM. :)Aaron Murin-Heathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11519231609156056620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163380492815189042006-11-13T01:14:00.000+00:002006-11-13T01:14:00.000+00:00I appreaciate you want to keep service inflation l...I appreaciate you want to keep service inflation low, but I will give you one statistic.<BR/><BR/>In 1997, there were as many BNP councilors as there were Monster rving loonie ones.<BR/><BR/>Now there are what 50 or 100?<BR/><BR/>It has happened on labours watch. it is labours fault. Your lot broke it.<BR/><BR/>Ultimately a Conservative government will have to fix it.Benedict Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01382732288664789210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163377086990718162006-11-13T00:18:00.000+00:002006-11-13T00:18:00.000+00:00Tyger, please give up. No one's interested in Pet...Tyger, please give up. No one's interested in Peter Hain any more. I feel sorry for the man but he needs to face facts and quit while he's ahead. Benn, Johnson and - yep - Cruddas have all drained the Orange Man's support and it ain't coming back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163371202880143682006-11-12T22:40:00.000+00:002006-11-12T22:40:00.000+00:00Very good article, certainly made me wonder about ...Very good article, certainly made me wonder about how lazy some of my 'recieved wisdom' might be.<BR/><BR/> The other argument that backs up your view is that the BNP are able to motivate people to vote who otherwise dont - they gain a high impact because voter turnout is so low,particularly in localsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163364213989094302006-11-12T20:43:00.001+00:002006-11-12T20:43:00.001+00:00Another good article Snow. xxAnother good article Snow. xxAaron Murin-Heathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11519231609156056620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163364181625683262006-11-12T20:43:00.000+00:002006-11-12T20:43:00.000+00:00Also, I agree Cruddas is not the man. Why not try...Also, I agree Cruddas is not the man. Why not try <A HREF="http://tygerland.net/2006/11/06/peter-hain/" REL="nofollow">Mr. Hain?</A>Aaron Murin-Heathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11519231609156056620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163364039138414722006-11-12T20:40:00.000+00:002006-11-12T20:40:00.000+00:00"Might I suggest that you delete the BNP troll?"Th..."Might I suggest that you delete the BNP troll?"<BR/><BR/>This just about sums up the problem we have with the BNP. We feel the need to censure them at every opportunity. Take the recent case involving Mr. Griffin. The case collapses and politicos come out and demand legislation to convict. It's weak and it feeds their victim complex, which they thrive on.<BR/><BR/>We need to defeat insular Aaron Murin-Heathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11519231609156056620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163356842804263732006-11-12T18:40:00.000+00:002006-11-12T18:40:00.000+00:00this might be worth a look.http://www.joncruddas.o...this might be worth a look.<BR/>http://www.joncruddas.org.uk/index.phpAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163354628332959552006-11-12T18:03:00.000+00:002006-11-12T18:03:00.000+00:00I don't accept that this is a purely Labour proble...I don't accept that this is a purely <I>Labour</I> problem. What about the BNP people in Tory heartlands?<BR/><BR/>And I refuse to believe that people who vote Lib Dem are so pure that they'd only ever switch to Labour or abstain, instead of switching to the BNP. The Lib Dems are simply a repository of protest votes. Many of the people voting LibDem arn't in favour of Lib Dem policies at all, butsnowflake5https://www.blogger.com/profile/14700425293614182769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29618513.post-1163352491891815322006-11-12T17:28:00.000+00:002006-11-12T17:28:00.000+00:00i am aware of the concern that the Labour high com...i am aware of the concern that the Labour high command have about the erosion of their voter base - to BNP.<BR/>.<BR/>.<BR/>So it is not only Mr Cruddas who is concerned about this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com